If you feel like you’re the one keeping track of everything—from doctor’s appointments to school forms to remembering what’s in the fridge—you’re not imagining it. The mental load is real, and for most women, it’s overwhelming.

In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Morgan Cutlip, a psychologist and relationship expert, to talk about why the mental load falls so heavily on women and, more importantly, how to start sharing it with your partner—without the resentment.

In This Episode, We’ll Explore:

• What the mental load actually is and why women carry more of it
• How unspoken expectations create invisible responsibilities
• Why simply asking for “help” isn’t the answer—and what to do instead
• Real-life strategies to rebalance household and family responsibilities

Connect with Dr. Morgan Cutlip:

• Website: www.drmorgancutlip.com
• Instagram: @drmorgancutlip
• Pre-order A Better Share: https://shorturl.at/2HtXk

 

Listen to the episode here!

 

Or watch the episode here!

I’d be honored and grateful if you would head over to iTunes to leave a review and let other female entrepreneurs know what you learned! While you’re there, don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you don’t miss an episode.

---

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] Are you someone that struggles with the mental load? Well, if you're like every other woman, I know your answer is a resounding yes. And I am here to tell you that there is an incredible expert in this space that not only understands it, lives it herself, but most importantly has Hands down the best practical advice on how to navigate this with our partners.

[00:00:24] I promise you it's going to change your life.

[00:00:28] Megan: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Work Life Harmony. I have been giddy all morning to be able to have this conversation with an author who I'm gonna have her introduce herself here in a minute, but I am 100 percent honest when I say any couple entering a partnership together, marriage or otherwise, especially where you are planning on having children, I think this book should be mandatory reading.

[00:00:55] And we'll kind of dig into that a little bit why but I would love to welcome Dr. Morgan Cutlip here to the show. I had you on a while back with your first book and now your new book is coming out. I, If you just want to tell people who you are, how you serve, and a little bit about the book, and then I've got some, questions I'm very selfishly excited about diving into today.

[00:01:16] Morgan: Well, so, uh, Dr. Morgan Cutlip, I have my doctorate in psychology and I've been in the field of relationship education for like over 20 years now,

[00:01:26] Megan: Yeah.

[00:01:27] Morgan: which is crazy. I keep doing the math thinking that can't be right, but

[00:01:30] Megan: I know. I'm always like, I've been doing this for 10, 15, 20, 25,

[00:01:35] Morgan: like, I probably over 20 at this point. So really where I kind of live work life is that I I really specialize in taking Psychological research and principles and theory and translating those into practical tools.

[00:01:49] I've been doing that alongside my dad We did it together for about 15 years and then the last five or so have been on my own I am from his personal stuff from Ohio. I now live in Southern, California I have two kids, Effie and Roy, they're 11 and 9. Married to my husband 16 years, his name's Chad. Maybe we'll talk about him if he comes up.

[00:02:10] He gets to be in my books, this poor guy. And he's my high school sweetheart, but we did not You know, we did not date. I have to always say like we did not date that whole time or else people will completely, you know, I lose street cred when I say that. So we, we dated for a bit high school on and off through college.

[00:02:28] Those were nasty years. And then didn't speak for five years and reconnected on MySpace. So,

[00:02:34] Megan: love that.

[00:02:35] Morgan: That's what I, that's sort of my personal background. You know, what I, what I really specialize in, it came about. You know, I've always specialized in relationships, but really this clarity piece when I became a mom and, and how becoming a mother dramatically impacted me in two ways.

[00:02:50] Number one, the feeling of just completely being buried and lost in motherhood, this experience of, of. being like, whoa, didn't expect that. Despite all my education and knowledge, did not see this one coming. And I don't even know who I am. And that was my first book. And then the second piece was how introducing kids to our relationship.

[00:03:12] Sent us down a path of resentment at a rapid pace. Sent me down a path of resent resentment, let's say it that way. And it was shocking because we have a great relationship and we did before kids and we do now. But I, I could not believe how quickly I could just. Be so furious with my husband. And I think one of the biggest, if I had to summarize it in a sentence, it was, gosh, it seems like my life changed and his really didn't.

[00:03:42] And that was really the, the other piece that sort of helped me hone, you know, what do I want to do? And what I want to do is I really want to help women feel empowered in their relationships so that they ultimately experience joy and wholeness. And feeling equipped and how to navigate these really tricky conversations and times and relationships that can, can feel very defeating and draining.

[00:04:08] And so that's, that's what I'm doing now.

[00:04:12] Megan: I love it. So the new book that's coming out, and we've got links to it down in the show notes, holding it up if you're watching the video, is called A Better Share. And I love that then the kind of subtext is how couples can tackle the mental load for more fun, less resentment, and great sex. And I love that you talk about all three of those.

[00:04:32] Because I think, I don't know if I've personally met any woman in the, you know, after shifting into a mom role where maybe five, six years into it, they can't answer the question, what do you do for fun? Right. I know I was there that low boil resentment that you talked about. And yeah, I don't really know too many moms of young children that are having a rocking sex life either.

[00:04:55] And they're all, I mean, there's some out there I'm sure, but it's usually because. You're exhausted and the resentment and all of that. So it's like, why, you know, that's the last thing on our mind. I would love for you to, maybe we kind of started off on how do you describe the mental load? Cause I think every woman knows it, but sometimes it's hard to specify what it actually is.

[00:05:16] Morgan: It's very hard to specify. So whenever I define it, I like to give a 30, 000 foot overview and then the in the weeds. definition because it is hard to explain. And I can tell you why the in the weeds definition is really important as I get into it.

[00:05:31] So the 30, 000 foot one is that the mental load is a seemingly never ending running to do list that we carry around in our heads that has two key components. One, most of the stuff is invisible. This is important. Because it is really hard to explain to our partners if they don't see it themselves. And number two, it's really hard to get any appreciation or acknowledgement for.

[00:05:53] We do so much of the stuff sort of like in the dark, behind the scenes, and so it starts to be taken for granted. The second thing is that it takes up cognitive real estate. This basically means is that it crowds out space in our brains that could be otherwise devoted to other things, like. peace, presence, like, regulating our emotions, patience, getting in the mood for

[00:06:16] Megan: Sleeping even. Gosh.

[00:06:19] Morgan: gosh. I can't tell you how many times my running mind has woken me up. So a couple of things. Everybody has a mental load. It's not a women's issue. The mental load isn't. However, the mental load of the home and family life and research says this time and time again is predominantly carried by women even if they work inside or outside the home.

[00:06:39] So the reason why it's so important is because when it's handled in a way that it doesn't feel fair, it starts to sink in. Like, starts to really stir up resentment in the relationship, and it kind of becomes a snowball effect. So, all right. In the weeds. I'll try to do this very quickly.

[00:06:56] Megan: Okay. Well, let me give you an example of what I think an in the weeds is. So, you know, I, I know I add value on minimizing the mental load. in, in the way I teach women planning and time management to try and get the mental ticker tape down. But then where you come in as the whole, how do we have those conversations?

[00:07:16] And how do we actually transfer ownership of stuff? So I feel like we've come a long way in our household. And I was recently, I traveled earlier this week. And I did everything I thought right before I left. We had the family meeting, the family communication center set up. Like I thought, here you go. I'd handed all the responsibilities of the errands and the practices and this and that.

[00:07:37] I left on a Monday morning that afternoon after school. My daughter has a violin lesson. And as I land in the airport, I just started laughing. I pull out my phone and there's a text from my daughter that says, for when you land,

[00:07:52] Morgan: no.

[00:07:52] Megan: Basically she says, what's going on? Can, can we cancel my violin lesson today?

[00:07:57] I'm getting this text now. She's in the same house with. My spouse, because there was no school that day. So I respond back, why don't, you know, dad's got the number,

[00:08:09] Morgan: your dad.

[00:08:09] Megan: go head up. So I'm like, okay, mission accomplished. Five minutes later, ding, and it's my husband. Hey, she wants to cancel her violin lesson. What do you think?

[00:08:19] I mean, I had to stop and laugh in the moment, but that resentment, it started up and then I just quietly, I wrote back and said, when I'm not home. You are COO of the household. And that's kind of what I call the, the, the mental load part. And then at last, cause he's right, wrote back. He's like, well, what am, what am I when you are home? So I just wrote back, damn lucky. And he just did the, you know, LOL. But I was like, I just felt like in that moment, I'm like, this is, this is the load that no matter how hard we try, it's like, I feel like I can never fully escape, even when I had left everything all mapped out. You know, that first I'm that first point of contact, like I'm two time zones away.

[00:08:59] No, I'm not going to navigate a reschedule of your lesson today.

[00:09:05] Morgan: it's so true. I mean, that's like the mental load will whip you, whiplash you out of the present, no matter where you are and like back into these sort of demands of family life. And that's the piece that's so frustrating for so many women because you know, women are massive amount of women work full time.

[00:09:26] A decent portion of women are the primary earners in their family and still they are navigating these, these things. And so it's incredibly draining and I hope that he got the memo for next time around.

[00:09:44] Megan: it was. And then I, I just sent a text to the both of them. I was like, Hey guys, just quick reminder, like, unless it's a nine one one. You all can work out whatever you need to, but I think this, it really highlights a part of the book that is really speaking to me as well. Which is there seems, we seem to kind of transition into agreements of who's handling what without there ever being the conversation and the verbal formal.

[00:10:14] agreement. You know, for example, I manage all of the appointments and the this and that, you know,

[00:10:20] Morgan: Yes.

[00:10:21] Megan: and so how do we, I guess first is if we're already there, which I think most people are, where there just seems to be these non verbalized agreements of roles and responsibilities, what can we do to I think we need to have a non emotional, I guess, conversation with our partner about this to actually get things in practice to maybe reevaluate those decisions and get a, start to lighten our load that way a little bit.

[00:10:52] Cause I think that's, I know an area where I hear a lot from my, you know, the women are like, that's just, but how do I get it off my plate? And first I'm like, well, I think we need to look at how it got on our plate in the first place.

[00:11:01] Morgan: Yeah, I think I want to start there because you know, I and maybe I spend too much time on the internet But you know some people give a lot of pushback where they'll say things like well They should just know or you know, I shouldn't have to even do this work It should just

[00:11:14] Megan: Mm hmm.

[00:11:15] Morgan: just be taking care of these things.

[00:11:17] And so I like to give a little backstory because I feel like it's important to understand how we got here, and then we can, you know, we have a little bit of a renewed perspective, and this can help us align better with our partner rather than feeling like our partner is the villain in our relationship, that they are just, you know, slacking, or they don't care about us, or some of these things.

[00:11:36] So

[00:11:37] Megan: They see it and don't care. And

[00:11:39] Morgan: Right. That's,

[00:11:39] Megan: not usually it.

[00:11:41] Morgan: the narrative that is sort of pushed out to the masses and I think it is really harming our relationships. So, a couple of ways we get here. One is our socialization. Even though this can sound very archaic, it still holds true in so many ways, which is that men and women are sort of socialized differently or valued for different things.

[00:12:01] So men, are socialized really to provide and protect. These are their main roles. I remember talking with my husband because he travels every single week for work. And early on, especially in parent of it, I was, I always felt guilty. I'd go to the store for an hour alone. I'd be like, I gotta hurry back. You know, I've just had this. guilt and he was gone every week. And I was like, you know, I know he had to, but also I'm like, you know, sometimes you're, you know, skiing or something, you know, it's that kind of stuff. And I was like, don't you feel guilty? And he goes, well, you know, I'm providing for my family. So no. And so it's really interesting how that sort of like the first box that needs ticked.

[00:12:44] And then the other stuff is kind of. And I'm not saying every guy is this way, but this is in general sort of what they're valued for and what they're expected to do. For women, we're really expected to self sacrifice for the preservation of our relationships, backburner ourselves, put everyone's needs first.

[00:13:03] Megan: Well, and that's why you felt guilty going to the store alone for an hour.

[00:13:07] Morgan: Yes, it shapes our judgments of ourselves, of other people, of other women, of other men. And so, we really are valued and judged by, you know, how well is our home kept? You know, how do we parent? how well behaved are our children? You know, I remember our son went to this, you know, evening thing at his school and he would not wear a stinking coat and it was pouring down rain and I was like, do you know that everyone there is going to be like.

[00:13:34] Why did your mom send you here without a coat? I was like, I'm going to give a judge because you're not wearing a coat. And he's like, I'm sorry, mom, but it's the truth. No

[00:13:42] Megan: And my dad even used to tell us, you know, I have two older sisters as we were like heading into marriage years and stuff, he's like, I'm not saying it's fair, but here's the reality. So he goes, if you're. You know, living on the side of the street and can't feed yourself, everyone's going to look to your husband and go, what the hell is wrong with you?

[00:14:02] And if your kids are complete, you know, jerks, lunatics, whatever, and your house is crappy, they're going to judge you. It's like, I'm not saying it's fair. This is just the world that we live in.

[00:14:13] Morgan: It is. So if you think about like, okay, we're valued and judged for different things. We then are prioritizing different things when we create a family. And this stuff sort of ticks up after kids exists a bit before, but it really clicks in. So that sets us up in some ways, sort of like the game is rigged a bit.

[00:14:32] The other thing is that I I call it piling on precedence in, in my book. But basically, I see women as sort of like the bounty quicker picker uppers in our life. It's like, right, we just kind of absorb stuff. So early on, even before kids, I find that a lot of us women do things for our partners just out of love and care.

[00:14:55] I mean, I remember like

[00:14:56] Megan: Genuine enjoyment.

[00:14:57] Morgan: yes, I enjoy like doing stuff to take care of my husband, especially early on. And so we're like, you know, oh. So, Mother's Day is coming, I already got your mom a present, like I got you babe, or I saw you were out of deodorant, I took care of it, and we sort of soak up all of these things out of love, out of care, all this stuff, and then kids enter the picture, and overnight our responsibilities sort of disappear.

[00:15:21] explode exponentially, and now we're fully saturated and we start breaking under the weight of it. And so if we can kind of get on board with these two things, we understand a little bit more how we arrive at a place where all of a sudden we feel like What happened? We're drowning and why am I doing all the things?

[00:15:42] And I'm not saying it's our fault, not by any stretch of the imagination. Again, I, I just think the game is rigged. It's, we get to a place where we have to start walking some of these things back. And so there are like big things we can do and then there are minor things we can do.

[00:15:59] One of the minor things that I love to do is something that I just call narration. So I do these experiments in my relationship, and I don't think my husband I've been doing them for years, and I've never told him, and it's not, not manipulative, but I like to see, like, if I do this, can I shift something in our relationship?

[00:16:22] Because I think we all have a lot of power to shift dynamics. So I started doing this thing. Where I started narrating what I do. And I'm not talking like, I'm not like Rain Man walking around the house speaking constantly.

[00:16:36] Megan: I'm picking up a pencil and now I'm doing this.

[00:16:39] Morgan: But I would like, I'd just be like, oh hey babe, I, you know, I enrolled Roy in Little League. can you believe this? I had to submit his birth certificate. I had to fill out these forms. these days I feel like you gotta submit a stool sample. Like it's wild. All the things you gotta do to put your kid in a sport.

[00:16:56] And so, you know, I'll just tell him, I did all these things, I took care of it by the way. Make sure you download the practice app so you can be up to date. And it does two things. Number one, it makes the invisible visible. This is something he didn't even know needed to be done.

[00:17:15] Megan: And I love how you're just bringing it up in conversation instead of waiting until the breaking point of, do you know what I did today? You know, it's very different energy.

[00:17:23] Morgan: and also, I find a lot of times when people reach their limit, they just start rattling off their, their things that they did. And then

[00:17:31] Megan: Oh, I've never done that.

[00:17:32] Morgan: right? We have all done this. We have all done this. And then their partner is like, well, did you know what I did? And then now you're in this sort of like hardship Olympics tension piece.

[00:17:41] So it makes the invisible visible. Now they know those things need done. And then the second thing is that it allows for an opportunity to get appreciated. And so. Almost always, and I could almost, I, I, well, I sort of want to say always, but I try to not do that. But almost always when I explain something like that, my husband would be like, oh my gosh, thank you so much for handling that.

[00:18:05] He would never have handled that in the first place. That's kind of where I, my domain. So it, it really helps to get these two things. And appreciation is a big part of feeling good about the mental load. So here's the funny part. I've been doing this now for a while, and my husband now does it too. I never told him that I'm like narrating stuff around the house, but he'll be like, Oh babe, did you know that I paid the property taxes today?

[00:18:32] And I took care of this and I scheduled, you know, maintenance for this. And I was like, thanks, babe. I love that I don't have to think about that stuff. I appreciate you. And so it's become this like really nice way. For us to be able to share what we do with no defensiveness, no competition, but just as a mechanism to get gratitude and to be seen.

[00:18:55] I think that's a very simple place to start. It's not, it's not the end all, but it's a quick thing we can start doing.

[00:19:02] Megan: it, and it's reminding me, I know when my husband and I were first getting married, the chaplain that married us, we had to go through several, you know, kind of premarital counseling sessions with him. And one of the things he had us do was read the five love languages, which I like, but I now know the history of that is fascinating on why five is not nearly enough.

[00:19:21] But what I found interesting was my love language. Pre children, polar opposite,

[00:19:29] Morgan: Yes.

[00:19:30] Megan: when I went through after kids, I think my love language yeah, pre children, it was time together, like physical touch, time together. Those went way to the bottom of the list, and you know, three years into motherhood, it was words of affirmation and acts of

[00:19:44] Morgan: Oh

[00:19:45] Megan: Tide, number one. It's exactly to your point of just feeling unseen, unheard, unappreciated for all the things that I was doing that just wasn't aware of to be able to say, I see you, thank you.

[00:19:58] Morgan: Yes. And I think, you know, my husband and I feel like we argued for like 10 years about words of affirmation because he couldn't get it right. And it would sort of become this little thing that wasn't a big deal. I was like, what's the the big deal to just give me this thing and it would turn into this big

[00:20:16] Megan: I'm not asking you to understand it. Just do it.

[00:20:18] Morgan: just do it. Yeah. And I remember, I remember being like, I just need you to tell me, like, I'm doing a good job. You see me, you, you value me. And he'd be like, Oh, well, you're a good mom. And I remember being like, Oh, that's so lame. You said that about our old neighbor in dc See, that feels like you could tell that to anybody and then it would become this big thing and he'd say, Oh, I just can't get it right. It's never enough for you. You need too much. And I think, you know, and that stirs up, we all have received messaging about having needs, especially as women.

[00:20:50] And so that stirs something up very deep in us where we're like, maybe I am asking for too much. Maybe I am needy. And so again, this can become a path toward resentment too when all we're wanting is something very simple. But I remember saying to him eventually, you know, You have to understand the immense power that you carry in our relationship as my primary source of feedback.

[00:21:13] I am at home. I'm an entrepreneur. I am a mother who is, you know, at the time had toddlers. Do you know the feedback toddlers give you? It's like,

[00:21:23] Megan: It's not

[00:21:24] Morgan: the worst. You know, it's like I can give them the world and I get bit. I mean, it's just like you get the worst feedback. So you. You, maybe you want to see yourself as sort of like my co worker or something in this, but I don't get any feedback unless it comes from you.

[00:21:41] And you have the power to lift me up and fill me up with your words or to give me nothing and just let me try to exist, giving all of me to our family running on empty. And so you need to decide how you want to handle this. And that was a huge moment of, of kind of shifting for us. And I think I'm saying this.

[00:22:00] In like great detail because I think a lot of women need to hear that it is okay to ask for these things and they're necessary and we need them and we have to have sort of this kind of like healthy sense of entitlement to step into asserting these needs in our relationships.

[00:22:18] Megan: Yes. Oh, and I, I love how openly you share Because sometimes, you know, it's so easy to get a book from someone who you feel like, well, they were never in the trenches, so how easy, you know, just like taking parenting advice from someone who never had a kid, you're like, hmm, how nice for you. Of course you'd never give your kid the lollipop to make them shut up.

[00:22:39] You've never been in this situation before. So I think, you know, your open honesty with that just allows us to be like, oh, okay. Thank you. I get it. So, I mean, obviously the entire book needs to be read. Again, by everybody, but where would you say is a great first step?

[00:22:59] Morgan: Mm

[00:22:59] Megan: That people could take today to start to get awareness and conversation, constructive conversation going with their partner.

[00:23:08] If they just are in that place where they're feel like they're like arms up looking for a, you know, a life raft to, to save them at this point.

[00:23:16] Morgan: the like least satisfying answer that I always have to give is that you, you have to talk about

[00:23:21] Megan: Yes. A hundred

[00:23:22] Morgan: I, I hate that because I really wish I could be like, boop, do this thing and then you're good to go and you're done. But the mental load is something that we're going to live with for the rest of our lives and especially when you have children in the house.

[00:23:36] You know, modern family life is so incredibly relentless that we have to get good at talking about it regularly, especially because it changes all of the time. You know, I had kids homesick all week, which means my mental load changed in a massive way this week. So we have to get good at touching base. So if you're beginning this conversation, I'll give some tips to help get it started.

[00:24:00] The first is please talk. Outside of a moment of high emotion. So we all sort of, it's, it's kind of stinks. Cause you don't want to ruin the

[00:24:10] Megan: I'm like, I learned that a little too late a couple of times.

[00:24:14] Morgan: made this mistake so many times, but it's, it's, it stinks to ruin the good moment. And then in the, in the hard moment or when you're a high emotion, you sort of just want to get it out.

[00:24:26] So this is a tricky one, but it's so important. You talk when things are relatively good. I think it can also be helpful to do a couple things to prepare for entering into the conversation. So the first thing might be something like, Hey, I need to talk with you about something. When is a good time? So things are good.

[00:24:45] And then ask when is a good time? And I'm not manipulative, but I do think that there are things we can do to sort of like Set ourselves up for success. So love it or hate it. These things are very helpful. So if they're like, now's a good time. Okay, good. You got a source of accountability. You said it was a good time because sometimes one of the biggest pushbacks when, especially when stereotypically guys don't want to have conversations that one of the things they'll throw back is you just pick the worst times to talk about things.

[00:25:12] So we're getting buy in. Now's a good time. The second thing we might get buy in. And so use this at your discretion is around offensiveness. And this is one of the biggest pushbacks I see is that partners get defensive. I talk extensively in the book why I believe this is the case, why this happens, and what we can do about it.

[00:25:29] But it can be helpful before to say something along the lines of what I want to talk to you about is Really important to me. It's taken me a lot of courage and energy to come to you to have this conversation, actually feel really vulnerable having this conversation. And so I want to know if you can handle whatever I'm going to say without defensiveness. So you're asking, you're sort of hedging it if they say yes, which they'll probably say yes. Then it does one of, it does two things. If they start to get defensive, they're going to pause for a minute because if they react with defensiveness and said they wouldn't, they're going to look like a liar. The second thing is, is that if they get defensive, you can hold them accountable.

[00:26:16] Hey, you said you could handle this. Maybe it's not a good time or what are you hearing me say right now that's stirring up

[00:26:23] Megan: It's making that. Yeah.

[00:26:25] Morgan: Yeah. And so then you can have the opportunity to clarify. So those are some good, like, setting it up for success points. The next thing when you actually get into the conversation, I think it's important to focus on two main things.

[00:26:38] One you're going to focus on how it impacts you, how this full mental load impacts you. Not how your partner impacts you. I know there's a reality there. I'm not denying reality, but if you want this to go well, focus on how the mental load impacts you. And the second is we're going to externalize the mental load.

[00:26:55] That is going to become our shared villain. And we are going to be on the same team trying to attack the villain. So it might sound like the thing I want to talk to you about is my overwhelm and how I just feel so heavy all the time, and this is what I think. A lot of our partners experience our tension,

[00:27:15] Megan: Mm hmm.

[00:27:16] Morgan: our stress.

[00:27:16] Maybe we're sort of scary to them sometimes with our intensity, so you can say something about that. You probably have noticed how I'm not really like light and laid back like I used to be. I'm stressed, I'm overwhelmed, I feel like I can't slow down or sit still, and this actually I learned has a name.

[00:27:35] And I want to talk with you about it. It's, it's something called the mental load. And I given in the book that in the weeds definition that can help articulate what it is. And you know, I believe in sort of modern family life, the mental load is kind of. unbearable. It's, it's like we have this pressure to be productive.

[00:27:54] We have these intensive parenting standards. We're doing parenting very differently than past generations. It takes more energy. We life is expensive, so we're always sort of hustling and going. Extracurriculars are relentless. You know, we, modern family life is setting us up to feel like we can never stop.

[00:28:15] Megan: And don't forget to make your homemade sourdough loaf while you're

[00:28:17] Morgan: Yes.

[00:28:17] Megan: apparently you're a terrible woman if you're not doing that either.

[00:28:20] Morgan: right? Like these, these, these endless sources of comparison that make us feel like we're never doing enough, even though we're going all of the time, you know, this, this is called the mental load. This is the reality of modern family life. And it feels. overwhelming to me. And I want to talk about how you and I can come up with a new strategy and plan for how we navigate it better together.

[00:28:47] Because what I'm noticing is that it feels like a lot of it's falling on me or whatever. Or if you want appreciation, you got to decide what you want out of this conversation. But I feel like a lot of it's falling on me and I'm not blaming you. I'm saying I just. Really, we got to find a new way forward because it's not sustainable and in the end, I feel like it might start to create disconnection and resentment in our relationship because I just cannot come up for air.

[00:29:13] And so I want to talk about a new way forward so that we can protect our relationship and our family life and my well being. And so do you mind if we start to talk through some of these, some of these ways that we can do that?

[00:29:26] Megan: I love that. And what, why I think this book is so invaluable is you give actual like dialogue, like example sentences to use example conversations that some of them I was like, Oh, I can see how if I approached it this way. It would, it would work a

[00:29:43] Morgan: Yes. And people.

[00:29:45] Megan: some of the verbiage and ways I've approached things have not always hit home as well as, I was like, I saw that going different in my head

[00:29:52] Morgan: Right, we always see it going differently in our head. And I feel like that's, you know, and some people will push back, like, well, why do I gotta do all these, you know, gymnastics, mental and emotional gymnastics to cater to my partner? And yeah, I, I agree, you know, I'm sorry. I, I, I'm not, I'm not suggesting

[00:30:07] Megan: because we're different. Our brains were, it's

[00:30:09] Morgan: we are different and, and if we want a different outcome, then I think it's, you know, I'm sort of like, what's the end game?

[00:30:16] And so what, let's equip sort of the process to get to that end game. And sometimes that means that we have some sort of, you know, scripts or tools to help us get there. And you know, it's, I, I put a lot in the book and even have a troubleshooting section at the end where I collected questions from my community and then I like walked through exactly how I would navigate it.

[00:30:37] This is what I'd say if they respond like this, this is how I would respond back. Because, you know, whenever I do live events, if I do Q and a. Always. They're like, can you just speak it out so I can record you?

[00:30:49] Megan: Yes.

[00:30:50] Morgan: So I'm like,

[00:30:51] Megan: what to say. Yeah. Wait, like you'll say something like, Oh, exactly that. That's what I need to come in and say instead. And that's what, that's just like the second gift of having this book is because it is hard to not. Anytime I come into something emotionally charged, even though I've picked the good time and all of that, sometimes then your words get mixed up and, you know, it just doesn't have the clarity that I had hoped

[00:31:14] Morgan: Or they surprise you with what they say. And you're like, I didn't see that one coming. I thought I set this up beautifully. And so I think that's the other piece is like, you know. I was talking to somebody recently and they're like, I get really overwhelmed in the conversation and I think it's fully okay.

[00:31:34] I actually encourage it. If you're somebody who gets overwhelmed and kind of loses the track and the conversation, make some

[00:31:40] Megan: Make notes.

[00:31:41] Morgan: make some notes and take them in. There is nothing wrong with that at all. I think it's very helpful. It can keep you on track and actually can prevent you from sort of getting into the weeds and some of these discussions.

[00:31:54] Megan: Well, and I even, cause sometimes I will come in like with a piece of paper and I've, you know, the phrase I'll use here in my family is like, okay, as I said earlier, like we all kind of know I'm the COO here in the household, which

[00:32:05] Morgan: Yes. Yeah.

[00:32:05] Megan: doesn't hurt to say because COO is not CEO. So if you're not, it's chief operating officer, they know I run all the forms, all the things, the enrollments, the orthodontist, the dentist, the doctor.

[00:32:16] All of it. So I'd be like, all right, coming in just as a COO in a business would have notes and schedules and all of that. That is why I'm coming in this way. And I, I, I feel like that's helping at least with my partner on understanding what I taught when I'm referring to the mental load. It's. This, everything that operationally has to happen for this family to function and thrive.

[00:32:41] And so yeah, I'm treating it like a business sometimes

[00:32:43] Morgan: I think we should, sometimes.

[00:32:45] Megan: Yeah.

[00:32:46] Morgan: It is.

[00:32:46] Megan: emotional sides of it, but the tactical, pragmatic you know, like we just had the perfect storm of my daughter needing the dentist, the, the well check, the ENT. Oh, and the eye exam, like it's all hitting at the same time.

[00:33:02] And any mom that manages it knows, like, you don't make an ENT appointment because you have to go to the primary care to get the referral to do it. And I just was like, I can't do all four. Which one, which one do you want?

[00:33:15] Morgan: Yes. Yes.

[00:33:17] Megan: And then I had to say, and that means. It's, you're actually the one, I'm not asking you to call and schedule it.

[00:33:23] You have to actually then take her and make it, like,

[00:33:26] Morgan: Yeah. Make it work for your

[00:33:27] Megan: know, yeah, figure it out. You guys together go navigate the eye exam. I'm out.

[00:33:33] Morgan: Yes. I love that. I love how you I love how you announced. What sort of like this is how I'm coming to this discussion. I'm coming as the COO of what you know This discussion because it sets the expectations and it depersonalizes things. So Another area where this can be really helpful my so my husband Okay, I'm not picking on it.

[00:33:58] But he he like for years is like I'm a straight shooter this is kind of like his like I'm a straight shooter, babe. Like just, just what I'm going to give it. I'm going to give it to you. This is what I think. And I was like, okay, like that's, so can I be a straight shooter? And when I would be a straight shooter, he did not like it.

[00:34:14] And he could not take it. And we've talked about that before. I'm like, you can't take the straight shooter from me. And he's like, seems like you're mad at me. And I was like, well. How do you, you know, how do, how do you think it feels on my end? It feels similar. But part of it is, is that especially as I've stepped into being more assertive in my relationships and I've grown about, you know, expressing my needs and things like that as I, I'll sort of like click into this, I call it like a go mode.

[00:34:39] I'll click into this go mode where I'm like, here's what's going on today. Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. This is what I need. And then, and for a long time he would sort of bristle. He'd be like, And I was like, I'm not mad at you. I'm not upset about anything. I'm just in the zone. Like, I'm just in go mode.

[00:34:54] Like here's what's got, here's what we got going on today. Let's do this. And he can be like this too. I just think he's not as insightful sometimes around when he clicks into this or he's like this so much because he's in the business world. So we started doing this thing where it might be in a morning hustle or something like that and I'd be like, Hey.

[00:35:13] I've got a lot going on today. Can I go, can I be in go mode and just rattle it off to you? And he's like, bring it. And so we set this expectation for like this, how I'm going to

[00:35:22] Megan: your keyword. I'm in go

[00:35:24] Morgan: I'm in go mode. You ready for it? And he's like, bring it. And so I then just pretty like assertively list out my list.

[00:35:32] Here's what I need help with. And he's like received, here's what I'm going to do. We got this. And we then click back out and it's helped us depersonalize. I think that's the thing is

[00:35:42] Megan: Because then it's a data driven conversation, not an emotional one. I love that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:47] Morgan: And it's saved us a lot of just miscommunications and misunderstandings.

[00:35:51] And so setting things up that way can be really helpful.

[00:35:56] Megan: Oh my goodness. I just, I want to like, can we have a 10 hour podcast so now I can ask you all my

[00:36:00] Morgan: There's so many things I didn't say that I'm like, Oh, I

[00:36:03] Megan: know and there's like so many great ways, but I mean really everyone, I just definitely pre order the better share. What is the actual launch launch date of it? April

[00:36:13] Morgan: It comes out April 8th. And so, yeah, I'm

[00:36:17] Megan: And I have a pre copy, so I'm very,

[00:36:19] Morgan: and you'll get a real copy too, when it comes out.

[00:36:22] Megan: But I think this can be what I love about this too, is this is something your partner is going to want to read as well. This is not a male bashing book. I've seen so many men who have read it who have come out going, wow, this was super insightful. Like I know how to better have these conversations as well that I just think it should be required.

[00:36:42] Reading for all couples. I really

[00:36:43] Morgan: I agree. I actually have like a handful of men that have volunteered to read it early that are reading it right now to get

[00:36:49] Megan: I've been loving listening to their feedback.

[00:36:52] Morgan: it's, I mean, secretly, like writing this book, my deepest desire was to write a book that men would really receive and would, facilitate perspective taking and insight because, you know, one of the biggest things

[00:37:06] Megan: Because I got insight. I was like, Oh, I hadn't really thought about how that affected my husband. Okay. I'm glad to know

[00:37:11] Morgan: we'll all gain it, but I, like, my deepest hope is that it picks up with men because women carry so much of the emotional labor in the home and family already. And so if I can provide something that is like, I am the, I am the translator. I am the one doing the heavy lifting for you. That's my, that's sort of like my dream for this book.

[00:37:32] We'll see what happens. But so far I have received the most incredible feedback from men.

[00:37:38] Megan: Good. I'm not surprised because I was reading with that lens as well. And I've been seeing some of the feedback on your social media channels from men on it. And I was like,

[00:37:46] Morgan: Yeah.

[00:37:47] Megan: That is my hope as well. So, thank you for. for the hard work and thoughtfulness and preparation that went into this book.

[00:37:54] I think this is going to be a gift to everyone that gets it. And thank you for giving me your time here today, selfishly. I appreciate it so much.

[00:38:04] Morgan: I'm so grateful for you. Thank you for having me.

[00:38:06] Megan: You bet.  

---